Maybe this is stupid, but why is Pope’s essay considered an essay and not a poem. I know we have debates about poetry being poetry just because and author calls it a poem, but does it work for prose as well? Is this an essay because Pope calls it an essay? It certainly doesn’t look like an essay, it looks like a poem. It rhymes, has lines, and has meter. To me it seems to be a poem. It doesn’t really have the traditional content of a poem, but that hasn’t stopped authors in the past from calling their writing poetry. This “essay” seems to fit a form than most poems we read. So why is in the essay section? Why does Pope call it an essay? - adi-c Feb 28, 2008
I also think that this seems like a classic example of a poem rather than an essay. The appearance on the page and the meter and the rhyme all shouted out poem to me, but I immediately suppressed this idea because the author had called it an essay. I then began thinking that perhaps this is an example of something that could go either way. Like The Colonel, this is a piece of writing that some people may define as prose, while others may define it as poetry. Neither category is incorrect, it is all in what the reader feels or thinks. I like the idea that literature is so flexible and can be defined or categorized in so many different ways.- mha-c Mar 13, 2008
I agree with your assertion that this essay is definitely a poem. I agree that it looks like a poem, not like an essay, but looks are often decieving. What we must do is determine the essential nature of an essay. To me, an essay is less style and more substance; it can just as easily be poetry as it can be prose. It is what you write, not how you write it. Poems can be fiction and nonfiction and fit into every genre of literature, from adventure to mystery. A poem could also be nonfiction, as we have seen in many pastoral accounts of nature's beauty. Just as easily, I believe, can an essay be a poem. I like to think of it as simply a genre of literature that can be the subject of any type of writing and in any form, poetry or prose. - PSp-c
I feel like Pope calling this piece an essay is only the title of it. When Brother Tom told us to print it out, I assumed that it would be an actual essay in prose and paragraph form. This almost goes right back to the poem that we read in class that was in the form of a paragraph. What makes a work a certain genre? Is it only what the other calls it, or intends it to be?
As for "An Essay on Criticism," I do feel like this has some qualities of an essay rather than a poem. For example, it takes a highly thought out opinion rather than solely descriptions and a lyrical quality that typical poems have. It is actually discussing something with us, which I feel is the quality of an essay more than it is of a poem.
Brother Tom mentioned that Pope was born "counting numbers" which means that he very easily speaks and writes in meter. Perhaps poetry was simply the best way for him to express his thoughts, though for many other people this same subject matter would have taken the form of an essay.- Kho-c Feb 28, 2008
But I don't think that the meter is what is bothering most of us. For me, it is the rhyme. I made this comment in class about how Pope must have had a great rhyming dictionary because there is no way I could have come up with all of those rhymes. There are over 700 lines in this poem/essay, that is a lot of rhyming. I asked Br. Tom how old Pope was when he wrote this and Pope was 21. Br. Tom also made the comment that Pope was basically a genius. I can agree with that!
I agree with Kho that this can been seen as an essay because of the topic and the language being used. The thought process behind all of these ideas is extraordinary. Also, the length is a part of it. I think back to Beowulf and realize that the story was considered poetry, but we can also call it a novel. Ahhh!! Now I'm confusing myself!
I think that Pope named it an Essay because he felt that the content of his writing, though in poetry form, would be acceptable as an essay. - szd-c Feb 28, 2008
I really don't see why these classifications are so important. And what way more to confuse us than to title a poem "An Essay on Criticism"?! I think that we have to go with what Pope named it: an essay. Yes it was a rhyming essay composed of couplets, but if Pope called it an essay, then it is an essay because that is what Pope intended it to be. Yes, I know that if I call a car a bird, it doesn't make it a bird, but writing and the distinction between essays and poems is obviously a little bit more subjective. I think we're going to have to go with what Pope says it is on this one. - LDo-c Feb 28, 2008
I don't understand why there has to be a distinction. Can't a poem be an essay? Can't they be one and the same? If this class has taught me anything so far this year, it is that the borders between the different so-called genres of literature are often crossed and meant to be crossed in the name of artistic expression and progress. A poem can be written in prose. Prose can be read like poetry. Apparently, a poem can be an essay, an essay can be a poem. I find it pointless to argue over what to call something. Can't it just be what it is? An essay argues a point. This poem argues a point. Thus this poem is also an essay, though I understand that there is more to it than that. Does anyone else share my point of view? - AHa-c Feb 28, 2008
I agree, but here is my point: I think that what makes an essay and essay is the substance. And what makes a poem a poem is the style. Therefore, this work is a poem with the substance of an essay, which makes it both. An essay, to me, is any work that argues a point, regardless of whether it is written in prose or poetry. Of course, we have never encountered a poem essay before in our studies, so it seems strange to us. Really, Pope is combining the best of both worlds--that combination of style and substance that makes for success (as Mrs. Smogor always says). He has combined the stylistic flair of a poem, with rhymes and couplets, with the powerful message that is the substance of an essay. - lsi-c Mar 3, 2008
For me, when I first saw Pope's work I thought that it was a poem based on its form and its style. It has all of the characteristics of a poem like stanzas and rhyme. But once I started to read it and figure out what Pope was trying to say it seemed like more of an essay to me. I have to agree that I think that it is both a poem and an essay. I think that a poem can be an essay and in Pope's case this is a poem and an essay. I think that it was an interesting way to get his point across because usually when we read works with a meaning like Pope's it is in the same form, that of an essay, so experiencing its meaning written in a different way makes the poem/essay more difficult but more interesting to read.- kfr-c Mar 10, 2008
For me I try really hard not to argue with a writer. If they say it's supposed to be an essay then I will take that as the truth. I know Pope's essay has rhyming, but we can't say it's a poem because it has rhyme. If we did that then we woudl have so much more controversy with pieces that are poems but do not have ryhme. That is the way I look at it so that is why i have less problem with how Pope rhymes in his essay. Someone mentioned that they take things for substance not style and that is a great argument for why Pope's essay is in fact an essay. Poems do have meaning and purpose, but we know when we are reading an essay becuase it has points and arguments and more opinion and facts. Also when we write essays we all have our own prose style and our own way to go about things. The way Pope wrote this essay was in rhyme and mimicked certain characteristics of poetry, but that is his style.- JJa-c Mar 12, 2008
I had a hard time accepting the fact that this piece was considered both a poem and an essay. While it didn't necessarily look like an essay, he conveyed purpose and came across with direct points and supports for what he was trying to say. As of now, I don't understand how one could refuse it to be an essay because of all the opinions behind everything. Who would waste that much time putting in all those thoughts to form into a major poem with 700+ lines? Then again, how often do poets create a poem just for the sake of stating an opinion in the first place? I think that the fact that it was set up as a poem and it rhymed just added to one of the major points he was trying to get across: he has the experience and the knowledge to write this way and critique others. The fact that it was set up as a poem was just an added bonus that made his essay all the more praise-worthy. - bzw-c Mar 12, 2008
Oh I absolutely think this is an essay. I mean, obviously, it's a poem as well, but the definition of an essay is, "a short literary composition on a particular theme or subject, usually in prose and generally analytic, speculative, or interpretative."
Ok, so it's USUALLY in prose, but this essay/poem is most definitely analytic and interpretative. Pope is attemption to get a point across to the people in an essay, and he thought it would make it more easily accessible if it weren't written in prose. I think it's an absolute genius move, and I actually never had any trouble accepting that it was both an essay and poem. I really enjoyed it. - MRo-c Mar 12, 2008
Well adi, I really don't see why it can't be both. As mro said essays are usually in prose, but prose isn't the point of an essay. The point of an essay is to convey an argument or point to people in written form. So I think that this piece clearly meets the requirements for both a poem and an essay. I mean this is probably the perfect scenario to write a poem and essay in one because he's talking about both in the essay. He really is pretty clever for doing this I think. I don't question his authority on being able to analyze both writing and criticizing at the same time because he's doint both at the same time in this piece.- mka-c Mar 12, 2008
Who says that it can't be both? It certainly has features of both. In the poetry section it clearly has the structure of a poem with its lines and meter and rhyming. It also looks more like a poem than an essay, but it also has the forms of an essay as well. It clearly presents a well laid out argument on the state of criticism and poetry that regular poetry usually dosn't express. Though there are many types of poems they usually (or at least the ones that I am familiar with which I will admit is not that much) don't try to present a clear case on something or lay guidelines for an entire form of literature. That is usually solidly in the realm of essays. However, had Pope just written an essay on the topic it would have been way too easy for him. He was a poet who knew his stuff and had to write something challenging or why would you write something at all? So instead of just a regular essay we have something much more, a fusion of two different styles of literature into one work that definently shows that this man had an enormous grasp on the English language. - DGr-c
DGr, you I think that you nailed this concept. I definitely think that it is both an essay and a poem, and why can't it be? It does not look like a normal essay that we might write, but I do not think that an essay was ever defined as five paragraphs of prose neatly written. Obviously Pope's article is a poem, but the question we are asking is if it is a essay too. And the answer is yes because the message is clearly an argument. Some might say that other poems have messages, themes, and arguments too. Does this make those essay too? Well, not exactly. Pope's is an essay too though because he clearly has a thesis and supporting evidence. We could take his poem and turn it into prose to create a "normal" looking essay. Does anyone agree with this also? Writing is about challenging one's creativity, and I believe Pope certainly does this in his poem-essay. - kva-c Mar 13, 2008
Well, i think for stuff like this, we really need to take the writer's word. I mean, we could honestly call it either one. It could be a poem or just as easily an essay. The thing is, the author wants us to think of it as an essay, and that must be because he wrote it to focus on that aspect of it. We can see just about anything both ways, but sometimes, there's a proper way to see it, one way that tells us more that all the other ways, and in this case, the writer's telling up to see this as an essay with points and an argument, and that this will be better than reading it as a work of poetic art. - AZU-C Mar 13, 2008
AZU, I'm with you on this one. We have to just take the author's word for it. In fact, the way an author labels his own writing gives us insight on how to read it and what to look for. If Pope called this a poem, would it be read with the same kind of analysis and care as it is give now, and would it be taken as seriously? Probably not. When called an essay, it is read as an essay, critiqued as an essay, analyzed as an essay, and taken to heart as an essay, rather than just a work of poetry. - mmi-c Mar 13, 2008
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I also think that this seems like a classic example of a poem rather than an essay. The appearance on the page and the meter and the rhyme all shouted out poem to me, but I immediately suppressed this idea because the author had called it an essay. I then began thinking that perhaps this is an example of something that could go either way. Like The Colonel, this is a piece of writing that some people may define as prose, while others may define it as poetry. Neither category is incorrect, it is all in what the reader feels or thinks. I like the idea that literature is so flexible and can be defined or categorized in so many different ways.-
I agree with your assertion that this essay is definitely a poem. I agree that it looks like a poem, not like an essay, but looks are often decieving. What we must do is determine the essential nature of an essay. To me, an essay is less style and more substance; it can just as easily be poetry as it can be prose. It is what you write, not how you write it. Poems can be fiction and nonfiction and fit into every genre of literature, from adventure to mystery. A poem could also be nonfiction, as we have seen in many pastoral accounts of nature's beauty. Just as easily, I believe, can an essay be a poem. I like to think of it as simply a genre of literature that can be the subject of any type of writing and in any form, poetry or prose. -
I feel like Pope calling this piece an essay is only the title of it. When Brother Tom told us to print it out, I assumed that it would be an actual essay in prose and paragraph form. This almost goes right back to the poem that we read in class that was in the form of a paragraph. What makes a work a certain genre? Is it only what the other calls it, or intends it to be?
As for "An Essay on Criticism," I do feel like this has some qualities of an essay rather than a poem. For example, it takes a highly thought out opinion rather than solely descriptions and a lyrical quality that typical poems have. It is actually discussing something with us, which I feel is the quality of an essay more than it is of a poem.
Brother Tom mentioned that Pope was born "counting numbers" which means that he very easily speaks and writes in meter. Perhaps poetry was simply the best way for him to express his thoughts, though for many other people this same subject matter would have taken the form of an essay.-
But I don't think that the meter is what is bothering most of us. For me, it is the rhyme. I made this comment in class about how Pope must have had a great rhyming dictionary because there is no way I could have come up with all of those rhymes. There are over 700 lines in this poem/essay, that is a lot of rhyming. I asked Br. Tom how old Pope was when he wrote this and Pope was 21. Br. Tom also made the comment that Pope was basically a genius. I can agree with that!
I agree with Kho that this can been seen as an essay because of the topic and the language being used. The thought process behind all of these ideas is extraordinary. Also, the length is a part of it. I think back to Beowulf and realize that the story was considered poetry, but we can also call it a novel. Ahhh!! Now I'm confusing myself!
I think that Pope named it an Essay because he felt that the content of his writing, though in poetry form, would be acceptable as an essay.
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I really don't see why these classifications are so important. And what way more to confuse us than to title a poem "An Essay on Criticism"?! I think that we have to go with what Pope named it: an essay. Yes it was a rhyming essay composed of couplets, but if Pope called it an essay, then it is an essay because that is what Pope intended it to be. Yes, I know that if I call a car a bird, it doesn't make it a bird, but writing and the distinction between essays and poems is obviously a little bit more subjective. I think we're going to have to go with what Pope says it is on this one.
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I don't understand why there has to be a distinction. Can't a poem be an essay? Can't they be one and the same? If this class has taught me anything so far this year, it is that the borders between the different so-called genres of literature are often crossed and meant to be crossed in the name of artistic expression and progress. A poem can be written in prose. Prose can be read like poetry. Apparently, a poem can be an essay, an essay can be a poem. I find it pointless to argue over what to call something. Can't it just be what it is? An essay argues a point. This poem argues a point. Thus this poem is also an essay, though I understand that there is more to it than that. Does anyone else share my point of view? -
I agree, but here is my point: I think that what makes an essay and essay is the substance. And what makes a poem a poem is the style. Therefore, this work is a poem with the substance of an essay, which makes it both. An essay, to me, is any work that argues a point, regardless of whether it is written in prose or poetry. Of course, we have never encountered a poem essay before in our studies, so it seems strange to us. Really, Pope is combining the best of both worlds--that combination of style and substance that makes for success (as Mrs. Smogor always says). He has combined the stylistic flair of a poem, with rhymes and couplets, with the powerful message that is the substance of an essay. -
For me, when I first saw Pope's work I thought that it was a poem based on its form and its style. It has all of the characteristics of a poem like stanzas and rhyme. But once I started to read it and figure out what Pope was trying to say it seemed like more of an essay to me. I have to agree that I think that it is both a poem and an essay. I think that a poem can be an essay and in Pope's case this is a poem and an essay. I think that it was an interesting way to get his point across because usually when we read works with a meaning like Pope's it is in the same form, that of an essay, so experiencing its meaning written in a different way makes the poem/essay more difficult but more interesting to read.-
For me I try really hard not to argue with a writer. If they say it's supposed to be an essay then I will take that as the truth. I know Pope's essay has rhyming, but we can't say it's a poem because it has rhyme. If we did that then we woudl have so much more controversy with pieces that are poems but do not have ryhme. That is the way I look at it so that is why i have less problem with how Pope rhymes in his essay. Someone mentioned that they take things for substance not style and that is a great argument for why Pope's essay is in fact an essay. Poems do have meaning and purpose, but we know when we are reading an essay becuase it has points and arguments and more opinion and facts. Also when we write essays we all have our own prose style and our own way to go about things. The way Pope wrote this essay was in rhyme and mimicked certain characteristics of poetry, but that is his style.-
I had a hard time accepting the fact that this piece was considered both a poem and an essay. While it didn't necessarily look like an essay, he conveyed purpose and came across with direct points and supports for what he was trying to say. As of now, I don't understand how one could refuse it to be an essay because of all the opinions behind everything. Who would waste that much time putting in all those thoughts to form into a major poem with 700+ lines? Then again, how often do poets create a poem just for the sake of stating an opinion in the first place? I think that the fact that it was set up as a poem and it rhymed just added to one of the major points he was trying to get across: he has the experience and the knowledge to write this way and critique others. The fact that it was set up as a poem was just an added bonus that made his essay all the more praise-worthy. -
Oh I absolutely think this is an essay. I mean, obviously, it's a poem as well, but the definition of an essay is, "a short literary composition on a particular theme or subject, usually in prose and generally analytic, speculative, or interpretative."
Ok, so it's USUALLY in prose, but this essay/poem is most definitely analytic and interpretative. Pope is attemption to get a point across to the people in an essay, and he thought it would make it more easily accessible if it weren't written in prose. I think it's an absolute genius move, and I actually never had any trouble accepting that it was both an essay and poem. I really enjoyed it.
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Well adi, I really don't see why it can't be both. As mro said essays are usually in prose, but prose isn't the point of an essay. The point of an essay is to convey an argument or point to people in written form. So I think that this piece clearly meets the requirements for both a poem and an essay. I mean this is probably the perfect scenario to write a poem and essay in one because he's talking about both in the essay. He really is pretty clever for doing this I think. I don't question his authority on being able to analyze both writing and criticizing at the same time because he's doint both at the same time in this piece.-
Who says that it can't be both? It certainly has features of both. In the poetry section it clearly has the structure of a poem with its lines and meter and rhyming. It also looks more like a poem than an essay, but it also has the forms of an essay as well. It clearly presents a well laid out argument on the state of criticism and poetry that regular poetry usually dosn't express. Though there are many types of poems they usually (or at least the ones that I am familiar with which I will admit is not that much) don't try to present a clear case on something or lay guidelines for an entire form of literature. That is usually solidly in the realm of essays. However, had Pope just written an essay on the topic it would have been way too easy for him. He was a poet who knew his stuff and had to write something challenging or why would you write something at all? So instead of just a regular essay we have something much more, a fusion of two different styles of literature into one work that definently shows that this man had an enormous grasp on the English language.
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DGr, you I think that you nailed this concept. I definitely think that it is both an essay and a poem, and why can't it be? It does not look like a normal essay that we might write, but I do not think that an essay was ever defined as five paragraphs of prose neatly written. Obviously Pope's article is a poem, but the question we are asking is if it is a essay too. And the answer is yes because the message is clearly an argument. Some might say that other poems have messages, themes, and arguments too. Does this make those essay too? Well, not exactly. Pope's is an essay too though because he clearly has a thesis and supporting evidence. We could take his poem and turn it into prose to create a "normal" looking essay. Does anyone agree with this also? Writing is about challenging one's creativity, and I believe Pope certainly does this in his poem-essay.
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Well, i think for stuff like this, we really need to take the writer's word. I mean, we could honestly call it either one. It could be a poem or just as easily an essay. The thing is, the author wants us to think of it as an essay, and that must be because he wrote it to focus on that aspect of it. We can see just about anything both ways, but sometimes, there's a proper way to see it, one way that tells us more that all the other ways, and in this case, the writer's telling up to see this as an essay with points and an argument, and that this will be better than reading it as a work of poetic art. -
AZU, I'm with you on this one. We have to just take the author's word for it. In fact, the way an author labels his own writing gives us insight on how to read it and what to look for. If Pope called this a poem, would it be read with the same kind of analysis and care as it is give now, and would it be taken as seriously? Probably not. When called an essay, it is read as an essay, critiqued as an essay, analyzed as an essay, and taken to heart as an essay, rather than just a work of poetry. -